Culturally Responsive Care: Meeting Ontario’s Diverse Home Care Needs

Culturally Responsive Care: Meeting Ontario’s Diverse Home Care Needs

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Thank you for joining me, everybody. My name is Carolina Gonzaga, your host today on the CareSmartz360 On Air – A Home Care Podcast. I’m so thankful to welcome our special guest today, Dane Clarke, the president and CEO of Stay Home Forever. Dane comes with us with 20 years of experience in healthcare and uh really is an expert at healthcare operations as well as forging strategic partnerships. He’s on a mission to change Ontario home care and beyond. And today we’re going to really dig into

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transformation, growth, and partnerships rooted in care through the perspective of culture and diversity. I’m so excited to welcome you, Dane. Welcome to the CareSmartz360 podcast. >> Thank you for having me. Looking forward to it. >> Yes. And don’t mind the lighting. I actually like this lighting. I think I’m going to keep it for all future podcasts. It’s under kind of like a >> angelic. It’s the angelic glow. >> It’s angelic. It’s tell HR that tell HR

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that at CareSmartz360. Um, but the spotlight is going to be on you and your and your expertise. So, for our listeners, I actually know Dane very well, not only from the industry here in Ontario in Toronto, uh, uh, GTA specifically, but also from various events. So Dne uh participated in CareSmartz360 first ever and one of many uh Ontario home care Summit. So some of the the topics that we’re going to talk about, we warmed up months ago when we spoke um today. We’re really going to be zoning in on cultural

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diversity and what that means in leadership and in agencies in that 360 way. So Dane, again, thank you so much for joining. >> Pleasure. Pleasure to be here. the question >> and as the president COO at Stay Home forever and I remember getting um your email wrong the first few times I emailed you guys it’s not stay at home forever don’t make the same mistake he’s not ghosting you but but I know that you prior to uh joining this amazing organization you have had lots of experience in this industry so just to

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start off to those that may not be from Ontario and for some reason don’t know you yet? Can you tell us about your background, where you came from, and what led you to your current role? >> Yeah, so you know, I’ll just step back to say been in healthcare now probably about 20 years. So, you can tell my age now. Um but before that really I did a few different things and sort of fell into home care you know like I said 20 years ago and really took a liking to healthcare and home care specifically

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being able to use my acumen from a business perspective but really giving back and helping those that are vulnerable and kind of moving the needle in healthcare and home care specifically and I think you know that’s what gravitated me to the field so yeah you know I’ve been in this for a while coming from a larger SPO so stands for service provider organization for those not in Ontario and sort of hold the larger government contract. So there’s a little bit of tidbit for you, but you

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know and really kind of continue to grow and partner with the ministries and the governments to grow home care and you know so here I am today as president CEO of Stay Home forever and you know like we talked about looking to move the needle with diversity and just cultural sensitivity, equality, equity and you know all those buzzwords that we talk about but really saying how can we do it differently and what can we do today that we didn’t do yesterday. >> For sure. And I suppose before we jump

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into, you know, the topic of uh the way that we view culture, diversity within our industry, um would you say that just even from a personal background that you’ve seen a change in the way that the industry at large, healthcare and home care, even talks about culture? I mean, is this something that has completely changed that footprint in the conversation from 20 years ago to today? Oh, absolutely. I think it’s changed. We have to do more, but at least we’re having the conversation. And I think,

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you know, 10 years ago, we’re probably a afraid to talk about cultural differences and should we have that conversation cuz again, we know when we talk about race and we talk about culture, it can become very uncomfortable for many. But we have to become comfortable with the uncomfortable, right? and really understand that it’s okay to talk about the fact that I was born in the Caribbean, came here when I was young. So, my parents are going to be looking for a certain type of potential provider

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for them or just understanding, hey, my dad did like cricket. You know, my mom came here and, you know, had to go back to school. So, like, you know, have those conversations so when somebody comes to your home now and you’re looking for a caregiver or for your loved one, they truly understand the background of that person. >> Yeah. And I suppose that this is a topic and again CareSmartz360 surveying all of North America and some other countries as well. Me and you coming and logging into this call from our home in Ontario.

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>> You know, yes, this is a topic important for agencies all over um you know the world. But Ontario being so diverse and the market that you serve, >> I mean, I guess that’s one of the reasons why you might be somebody that gets invited on panels and podcasts to talk about it. So, absolutely. >> Can you talk a bit about how Ontario is distinct to other markets, just for those of them that don’t know about Ontario? >> For sure. You know, I think Ontario being the ecosystem that’s become of

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just cultural diversity, you know, um, as an example, in one given week, we’ll get a referral that says looking for Mandarin speaking, um, looking for Punjabi speaking, looking for someone from this descent, you know, Greek, Macedonian, and it just speaks to, you know, people immigrating to Canada and then Ontario and being the GTA of Toronto where everybody wants to live. So now you’ve got this massive cultural diversity and many people are coming here and bringing their parents over. So

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now if we think of someone who has dementia, they’re now reverting back to when they were young. So guess what language they’re speaking? They’re speaking their mother tongue potentially, which could be Macedonian. So now if you’re sending a caregiver who doesn’t speak Macedonian, could be a bit of a challenge. Not that they can’t do it because you can still, you know, do things to persuade them and help them and they probably still do understand English. But if you could

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find someone that speaks their language, I’m pretty sure that a family is going to be quite responsive and they often ask for that, right? Do you have somebody that speaks this language? So, you know, similar to, you know, I’m sure many states in in America that are a bit more diverse than some, but you know, I think again when you’re thinking about the needs of a client and a family, it’s can you find them someone who basically, yeah, can speak their language if need be. >> And I guess there’s two layers to this.

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Maybe you cannot find realistically correct somebody with the right skill set that has the language, but the understanding of the language is a step in the right direction for sure. >> Or even just understanding that, hey, when I walk in the door, this is the kind of culture where you take your shoes off. So now the staff, >> they’re going to put booties on, right? Or they’re going to put booties booties on over their shoes because that’s how they do in that culture. Or it’s a

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family that’s okay, walk in with your shoes in the summertime and they’ve got no problem with that. But just having those conversations and understanding what they’re looking for, I think just makes it easier for both the caregiver coming into the home because again I often talk about you know people forget that this is their home. This is somebody’s home that Dne has lived in for say 20 years and now some stranger is walking into my home >> and that stranger is walking into a home

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that they’re not sure what they’re walking into. So that dynamic still comes into play. So the more we can kind of you know get them the right information to understand what’s happening it goes a long way. For sure. And I mean, I even just think of the fact that as, you know, myself raised by an immigrant Filipino family, they have never had a housekeeper. They I mean, the idea of somebody being in their house, it’s like, well, this is a guest and there’s a certain etiquette

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and now my parents have for the first time a living caregiver, >> right? >> And they did sponsor her from the Philippines. And this goes this goes this goes well because they they understand each other. But thinking about the layers of coming into a home and even the comfort of that worker >> to be able to understand um why are they giving me slippers to they’re making me take off my shoes and they’re giving me slippers that I don’t own. So >> correct. >> For sure.

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>> Yeah. >> And and when you So I’m going to ask um I suppose kind of a bigger picture question. Sure. >> And I guess it’s a question of kind of chicken or egg. So there’s two parts to this. There is diversity for your workforce in a remote in a remote environment where they’re walking into homes of all sorts of different not only cultural backgrounds but values locations dynamics >> and then you’re also thinking about what the folks that you’re serving not only

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the experience of the client themselves but that circle of care around them. So is there any sense of where the conversation begins or is that just impossible? >> No, I I think I think it’s the art of the possible I’d say it’s the art of the possible, right? Thinking about it from a different perspective is saying how can we, right? And I think that is one of my mantras is let’s think about how can we, right? So how can we provide that support >> and really just equipping them with that

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need to understand and have that conversation. And I think often times, you know, we don’t train the staff well enough. And I think one of the things that we want to always consider whether it’s our organization or another, you know, is really making sure the staff are prepared and understand what they’re walking into, what are the things they have to look for, you know, whether it’s client or in the home and family. You know, one of the the great things that happens is when you train your staff

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really well and they walk into a home and they see maybe a few things that they think shouldn’t be happening, they’re comfortable to bring that back to you to say, “Hey, maybe I’m a great fit or maybe I’m not a great fit or here’s what I saw. I opened the fridge and there was no food.” Right? >> They can bring that back to us to say that, “Hey, here’s what’s happening in this home.” So even beyond the kind of cultural piece of the puzzle there, it’s

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really just training them in being comfortable to have those conversations and bringing back information that I think often times maybe they were afraid to do before, but feeling confident to bring that back to your organization goes a long way and supporting that family or that loved one. >> For sure. the you know also just adding in another layer for our our listeners stay with me but you’re you kind of started with that the comfort of being able to say here’s what I observed and

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saying like almost not only admitting I don’t really understand this or I don’t know but also being comfortable to say I’m not going to be judged for noticing something that I might have not noticed >> correct like two twofold there like 100% bang on Caroline is that you know feeling comfortable that I’m going to come back to the organization and say Hey, here’s what I’m seeing. And or hey, I think maybe this other person might be a really good fit cuz, you know, the

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dynamic here wasn’t great. And and not from a conversation of like, oh, I don’t like this person. No, it’s more of, hey, maybe this other individual might have a better rapport. And I often say that when families call us and contact us saying, hey, here’s what I’m looking for. And I’m honest. I’m saying we may not get it right the first time. We may send somebody and think, hey, this is the best person for you, but it’s not the right fit. then we got to send somebody else and it may take a few

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times before we find that right person and that and that’s going to happen. But it’s having that honest dialogue and not being like, “Oh yes, we’ll get it right the first time.” Nope. That’s not the reality of home care. Like that’s just not it. And I think saying that really and coming from myself the senior living background which also has the same conversations but I also think that that is such a differentiator with any other care plan is that >> to say we can work on this and it is not

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just we’ve assigned someone and now you have to be quiet and bear it that it is truly a conversation because it is also for sure the four walls of their own home. So, it’s also empowering and does it not kind of give more value to the value proposition that you’ve been offering in the first place? >> Oh, 100%. And and you think about, you know, there’s families where their loved one lives in, let’s say, BC, but their kids are in Ontario or their kids are in New York City and their mom still lives

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in Ontario or or all those different dynamics. So, they are truly relying on you and that organization to provide that level of care for their loved ones. So again, understanding what the family is looking for, what the needs of that family are, whether it’s cultural or just basic needs, you know, goes a long way to providing that care. >> For sure. So tell me when you’re now thinking about, you know, diversity within your team. Obviously now we’ve already touched on many times that it’s

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a part of it is about you know who you’re providing service to and how that diversity can be a tool and and help with you know maintaining a happy well-ared for uh census but also what about the experience of you know that staff member just as a part of your team how have you seen that conversation become more important and how are you talking about it today and stay home forever >> yeah for sure I think it starts you know it’s kind of cliche, but it starts at the top. So, it starts with me really

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being there when they start. So, in orientation, I’m there to kind of, you know, give my spiel, so to speak, but really say, listen, this is what we’re looking to do. This is how we’re looking to do it. And and truly, like this may rub some people the wrong way, but we are also an organization where our executive reflects our workforce, right? When I look at some organizations, they can’t say that, right? Um, our executive does reflect sort of the diversity of our workforce, right? And I think that

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is hugely important from that perspective. So it starts there, right? It starts by saying it and doing what you say. So it starts there and then we continue to have those conversations and I think it goes back to also they’re then comfortable. So for example, two staff came in here yesterday and they said Dane, you know, the change that we’ve seen in the organization since you joined is that we are trusting and we are able to come to you and have a conversation. And the conversation they

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wanted to talk to me about was per PR. So in Canada it’s permanent residency. like how do I become a permanent resident of this country because I came here to work. So how can we as an organization support them? So you know it’s really those conversations. It’s doing what you say and not just kind of putting it as a here’s my vision and mission and it kind of sits on a wall somewhere. It’s really living and breathing that every single day I think is hugely important for the staff to see

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and then they’ll resonate it and they’ll take it back out to the community and bring it back home as well. you know, bringing up PR and it being initially uncomfortable and the fact that they were able to come to you is a great sign. This kind of came up when you were at the Ontario Home Care Summit, too, is that I think that there even just in the industry of caregiving alone, there was there wasn’t enough reverence to the importance of what they do and also the fact that >> what you think they might want might not

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be what you assume. like maybe they don’t they’re not looking for a trajectory of you becoming a nurse or rising up into a manager. And so for those that want to do this job, we there is something that they desire and something that’s going to help them stay. And so I love that that’s a normal thing because I think years ago, maybe 20 years ago, started around the same time as you in the industry, >> it would be like you’re asking me for what? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That’s a you problem, not a me problem.

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But is it not an us problem? If we lose this valuable >> 100% and and we talk about you know the world has a health human resource problem with healthare right the entire world right you know I was listening to something yesterday and it was talking about that and we definitely have a shortage in North America on you know healthcare workers doctors nurses personal support workers OT’s PTS and the list goes on so why wouldn’t we do what we can to your point it’s it’s a we problem it’s a how can we support the

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system and I think you know the old adage of don’t waste a good pandemic. Um was we really saw the benefits of home care during that you know tumultuous time that we all went through and understanding that these are the people going to their homes cuz they couldn’t leave their homes and that’s where they were getting the care. Nurses were going to the homes, doctors were going to the homes. So you know it is a weed problem for sure. >> Yeah. So bringing in a little bit and I suppose this is um I’m going to keep it

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general and then wherever the question takes you please please please uh take the liberty but I’m thinking about training within an environment of fostering this cultural diversity this feeling of safety this feeling of trust and so that can also go handinhand with technology as well. >> Yeah. Is there anything whether it be technology focused or even just modules that you’ve built or inservices that you found that you’re using more? Um is there anything that you’ve brought to

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your teams to to really uh create kind of goals strategic goals that you can achieve within this topic? Yeah, you know, with our, you know, LMS platform, so our learning management system, you know, we’ve created different modules around, you know, sort of that cultural piece and and also just that openness of dialogue and conversation. I think when we think about technology, we’ve encouraged the use of technology and I think when people think of technology, they’re like, oh, I have to have this

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grandio system that allows me to do tele medicine or all that stuff. One of the simple things that we did is we, you know, clients and families have access to see who’s coming to their home so they don’t have to make a phone call, right? You know, um, basic things that you can do that aren’t necessarily, you know, a million-doll spend, you know, c can get you what you’re looking for. And again, having the right systems, the tools, so staff can see where they’re going, staff can see exactly what

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languages these individuals speak. We can also match those languages. You know, we think about like that specific piece. So technology I think is always an interesting conversation in home care but really using it to your benefit in those ways makes a big difference. >> So this is bringing up diversity in on another level and it reminds me of a podcast that I did a few weeks ago that kind of got me thinking about this for the first time. Dane, what about diversity with age with age gaps? So

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we’re talking about you know people staying in the work force for longer. So, you’ve got folks that might find these conversations even harder to wrap their head around just because it’s been it’s it’s new. And then you’ve got folks joining the workforce eager for that from a younger perspective and a lot of assumptions between those two. How are you managing that conversation and those dynamics within your agency? >> Oh, yeah. Those are very interesting conversation. I think it just goes back

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to that open transparent conversation. Um, you know, if it’s a 65year-old caregiver versus a 25-year-old care caregiver, you know, technology might be a conversation that we have to have around, you know, hey, they may not be as comfortable with technology. And that could go for either age group. Maybe it is the 25-year-old that’s comfortable, >> but likely they are, you know, and then really just I think it’s that openness and really creating that dialogue and conversation. And again, it starts as an

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organization. Are you an organization that allows your staff and makes your staff feel comfortable to call you? Whether you’re the CEO, whether you’re the manager, whether you’re the frontline supervisor, whether you’re, you know, frontline staff member, being able to have that dialogue. Cuz if you don’t create, in my opinion, that organization that allows that sort of open dialogue, top down, you know, however you want to look at it, it’s just not going to work. Because then

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that individual who’s 65 looks at the 25-year-old, they’re just coming up. they want to take my job or vice versa like 25 year old saying to the 65y old you don’t know what you’re doing you’re old like you don’t want those conversations you want an open dialogue says hey how can we work together here’s how I can support you here’s how I can help you with technology and you know the new worker comes in the the person who’s been here for a long time says here’s here’s some things that worked

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for me in the past maybe it’ll work for you but having that conversation kind of brings it back down to a just we’re all here for the right reason like you said it’s a we it’s not a you and I it’s a I think that saying of you make it of yourself when you make assumptions, >> it kind of makes me it kind of makes me feel like all of this what really is the through line that I’m hearing too is that it is the organization’s responsibility to set the tone so that these conversations can happen in a way

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that’s productive. Otherwise, you don’t know how any party is suffering or building building resentment or unhappy with the day-to-day of the organization if you’re not putting it out there to say this is something that we that we can talk about. >> Absolutely. I think we can all find stories in our past or other companies where you didn’t have that open dialogue and you know there was a staff member who was just kind of festering and fostering and wasn’t feeling that they

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could bring it forward and all of a sudden they’ve resigned >> because you had no idea that they were unhappy because we weren’t having those open, honest, transparent conversations and now we’ve just lost a really really good worker because we haven’t had those conversations. So I’m sure everyone you know listening can kind of have a story around that. >> Yeah. And I and I suppose the reason why even though some there’s going to be people out there that resist these

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conversations for whatever reason that the reason why it’s more common place for us to be talking about it like we are today is because we need those workers and that’s obvious now >> there might have been enough fill and now you’re stuck now but you need to hold on hold on to those people. I I’d like to end with this question for you. So let’s just imagine there is um you know somebody somewhere who’s uh coming into a leadership role in a new organization um and they are maybe a little

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intimidated by this conversation thinking am I really going to be able to walk in and and be able to make a difference. So if somebody has the opportunity to start fresh and really think what am I going to think about as I build relationships and take this organization to a new direction of diversity and culture being a topic. What are some of the things you’d advise them to keep in mind if you were to mentor them? >> For sure. Um, if I were to mentor them, you know, I’d say become uncomfortable

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and ask those questions. You know, you don’t want to be sitting in this place of comfort all the time and just saying, “Oh, I’ve got it figured out.” No, ask some of those difficult questions. And hopefully you have a leader who’s open to those questions. Right? So, you know, if I was bringing somebody on that reported to me, I’d be like, “Listen, there’s no question that’s off the table.” If I can’t answer it, I’ll be honest, say, “I can’t answer that

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question for X, Y, and Zed.” But feel comfortable to ask the questions. Also, really understand the business, the organization, and industry that you’re going into. If it’s home care, make sure you really understand it as you’re going into so you can ask those questions. Do your research. Truly understand the industry that you’re going into. I can appreciate sometimes when you’re first starting out, you’re just trying to find a job, right? which is good. But once you kind of decide on here’s an industry

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I like, really research it, understand the company you’re going for, and then understand the workforce. What kind of culture do they have? Do they have that open and transparent culture? And are you going to be a good fit? And if you are that good fit, then really bring things forward to say, “Hey, what about this? What’s this opportunity? How can we do something different?” And maybe you can’t do something different, but still have those open, transparent conversations. If you have people

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reporting into you, kind of breed that culture as well, you know, and I think um, you know, education is always a good piece. If there’s a course that you see that’s of interest to you that’ll help you in your job, you know, and the organization’s willing to pay for it or you can do it yourself, those are always good conversations to have as well. >> Amazing. Well, Dane, as president COO of Stay Home Forever, um, I want to thank you for your time today. And for anyone in Ontario that might be curious about

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how they can find you or who you serve, can you just let us know what is kind of the geographical area that your organization um covers and how they can find you? >> Yeah, so we cover most of Ontario right now. Obviously, you can email me or reach out to us um staying home forever.ca. You know, you can always reach out to me directly, have a conversation, but you know, and you know, even just about the industry if you’re curious. It doesn’t have to be about, you know, specifically, hey, you

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need services. just, you know, always happy to have a conversation around home care as you can tell. >> Yeah, for sure. Well, Dane, I look forward to seeing you in person next time, but thank you for joining me virtually today for our podcast. >> Welcome. Thank you.